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Canada

Ive noticed there are a few people "attempting" or have taken clones off there main or secondary vines , Whats the point of doing this?



and How long would it take for a clone to set a good root system and start its own vine to set fruit?

just curious

thanks

dave

7/10/2004 10:56:13 PM

Western Pa.

People take propagations if a seed stock is getting rare and they wish to try the same plant the following season. (The hard part is keeping it alive and healthy through the winter.)Or, if a friend has a plant you'd like to try, and no more seeds! Thus you can grow 2 pumpkins in two (or more) years from the same seed. "Madman" Marc Sawtelle of Colorado is what I believe to be one of the early pioneers in this field. (There should be an article or two here on the site.)

7/11/2004 7:44:21 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Our 845 Bobier cutting is extremely agressive. All this junk about "no stump" simply isn't true. I beleieve if world record growers gave the same effort to growing cuttings they do seeds, things would be different.

In our case this was the only way we could get an 845 to grow. I am NOT spending $300+ for one seed at an auction. Besides, while everyone else is dreaming about pumpkins all winter, we were actually growing them. It's fun if you have adequate resources to keep them.

7/11/2004 1:12:59 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

I also believe cloning will provide a higher degree of breeding. Say for example a cutting of an 801.5 Stelts plant that threw a 1000+. Then cross that back into itself. Then if possible recross it back in to its parent plant again. Only time will tell if this theory is way out of wack, or a new way of contolling superior genetics.

7/11/2004 11:33:28 PM

Cologne / Germany

Dave, I made a first cutting on my 1260 Weir plant. Pics and description are in my diary today.

7/13/2004 8:34:24 AM

Long Island,New York

My clone of the 1260 wier has successfully re-pollinated its daughter...whats THAT called? 1260a x sib(b)x a again

7/13/2004 4:40:50 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

incest

7/13/2004 4:59:11 PM

Cologne / Germany

I think a cutting - if you can keep it for the next season - is much more used to your growing conditions than a seedling. Imagine how many growers have problems with seeds from pumpkins grown in a completely different climate.
Furthermore you can have a plant growing excellent for you, next season the same seed could produce a very disappointing result due to whatever condition and you wish you had last year´s plant again. If you have a cutting from a "good plant", so you safe the desired traits.
I totally agree with Steve on that point. For instance if you need to have 845 males for pollinating, why starting another rare and expensive 845 seed if the cutting will at least provide them next season?

7/13/2004 6:07:23 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Hmmm....maybe I'll do a 730 Stellpflug and 1260 Weir cutting for over winter. My wife will just love that!

7/13/2004 6:46:40 PM

In the shade - PDX, OR

G - I think this is exactly what Shannon is talking about in his previous post. Selective generational breeding.


Floh - I think you should cut those flowers off your clone - it's just sapping the energy and water. Also I think you could also cut 1 or 2 of the largest of leaves. It takes a lot of turgor pressue to keep those upright. The roots are still growing & will have a hard time gathering enough water.
As long at the tip continues to grow you will be in business. Do you have another long tray lined up for your cutting to grow over?

7/13/2004 8:16:10 PM

Cologne / Germany

Thanks Ceis, just did some pruning on the cutting (3 older leaves & flowers) and it looked much better this morning. The next long tray will be added today.

7/14/2004 5:44:48 AM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ spacemaster400@earthlink.net

Undertaking the task of keeping a strong and vigorous clone going takes a whole lot of determination in the winter months.....As I did this task many moons ago.....You must be very determined to then grow the same genetic again come growing season,as you may have the winter clone boredom from playing with the same plant too much...lol..Not to say I may do it again after my little vacation.....Here is a link of a picture of my past cloning experiences OF FEB. 11 2001...Somtimes we all need a vacation......

http://www.pumpkinnook.com/howto/clone2.htm

7/16/2004 2:51:01 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

For those who deecide to try keeping a cutting, they need to carefully examine & modify their ability to regulate light, air movement & temperature in the grow area.

We were doing fine this winter using the greenhouse (originally engineered & built to 10F lows), since the average low temp in the evening was 48F & daytime highs were about 60F. Powdery Mildew never showed itself & growth was steady.

But then we got hit with single digit temps for almost a week. The plants slowed & only those located away from the single layer plastic end covers weren't showing stress as temps in the greenhouse dipped to the mid 30s.

With colder weather in the forecast, I pulled all the plants to the very center of the greenhouse getting them as far from the single layer plastic ends as possible & started kicking myself for not installing a $40 blower to increase the insulation factor of the double layer main body of the house. We taped all the door seams & vents shut, cranked the heaters up, & crossed our fingers.

The plants might well have survived, but at these sub-zero temps even animals get desperate. Some critter ripped a single layer end seam trying to escape the cold.

All but 2 cuttings died as the temps inside plunged below freezing for 5 hours. Two plants survived since they were close to the heaters.

The 2 survivors were brought into the basement workshop while repairs were being made. Growlights, a fan & a dehumidifier ran regularly. Even the heat register was closed in an attempt to better simulate the greenhouse environment. No good. Night time lows downstairs never dipped below 65F & Powdery Mildew flourished.

continued

7/16/2004 7:08:18 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Spraying for Powdery Mildew caused almost as much damage as the disease itself on these unnaturally grown plants. My wife was tickled I was spraying fungicides indoors but lugging the boxes upstairs & bringing them outside to spray was not a very appealing option at 5*F.

We did eventually keep one alive. Once the greenhouse was repaired & the plant brought back outside, the PM disappeared without further sprays. It resides in our patch growing as I type. It has Powdery Mildew as does the rest of the patch, but we're managing it.

For the record; all CT & Metro NY growers have PM early this year & I'm not blaming the cutting though it may have worsened the situation for us.

The point of my rambling is to support Marc's advisory. It is a LOT of work. I don't believe that most basement grow areas are cool, bright, dry, or ventilated enough to keep this aspect of the hobby as fun & interesting as it should be.

If a backyard greenhouse isn't an option (engineered to 10* lower than your 10 year average LOW), then an unheated sun porch would be a bare minimum second best.

I wouldn't recommend growing these cuttings indoors at all. You will end up having to spray for PM much more often. How is this done with the plants in your living area?

If the job of keeping the plants isn't fun, it won't take long for many people to give up entirely. Be honest with yourself before deciding.

7/16/2004 7:08:25 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

G sounds like squaring to me do it again next year and its cubed.

7/16/2004 8:13:46 AM

In the shade - PDX, OR

Floh - glad to hear that worked for you.

Looks like you have a big task ahead of you in keeping this one alive for 9 more months.

Summer growing should be OK - but then again with the Summer you are having in Deutschland that sitll might be in question.

Cheers,
Ceis

7/16/2004 12:32:27 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

yes....summer in Germany.....lol

7/16/2004 4:10:18 PM

Canada

Is it best to take a clone off the main vine or secondary?
or does it really matter?

thanks again

Dave.

7/19/2004 3:45:24 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

It probably doesn't make much difference, but I would choose a main if given a choice. Secondaries are fine too. By the time May 1st comes around, you'll be glad to bury whatever you still have alive! LOL

7/19/2004 6:03:43 PM