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Garden State Pumpkins

I have been composting Oak leaves for 2 years. Black as coal, two feet deep, but the surface weed roots and planted winter rye are not penetrating could this be from phenols? and if it is I found this product from Biozyme called Biodox which is supposed to help clean up toxic spills including phenols would a light dose of this clean up organic phenols from leaf compost or do more harm then good?
Any input on Phenol toxicity would be appreciated...and of course remedial action. thanks Chuck

12/3/2004 7:56:14 AM

Knopp, Germany

Hey Chuck, I don't know the first thing about phenol toxicity, but i did find some information that red oak leaves are highly acidic (careful when adding to patch) and that gallotoxin is a problem for horses and cows, etc. here is a cut and paste from the website:

While short-term acute poisoning by oak has been reported, the most commonly encountered oak poisoning is of a chronic nature. Oak is most dangerous early in the spring when the leaves and buds are the highest in toxicity and when there is little else to eat. The fall is another at risk period, when acorns and leaves fall and better forage dies back. Therefore, management plays a key role in preventing oak toxicosis.

The toxins in oak are called gallotoxins and are converted in the body to tannic acid, gallic acid and pyrogallol, all of which are very toxic to the kidney. It is the resulting kidney failure that causes the clinical signs. Typically, a significant amount of oak needs to be consumed over a period of time before clinical signs appear. Signs can develop over 2 to 14 days, or signs may be present with the animals becoming progressively worse over many weeks. The number of animals affected in the herd can vary greatly, but of those showing clinical signs, up to 80% may die. Signs of oak poisoning can include depression, lack of appetite, a gaunt and emaciated appearance, poor or rough hair coat, dependent edema (fluid buildup under the skin under the neck, abdomen or on the legs), digestive disturbances (both diarrhea and constipation have been reported, with mucus covered or tarry stools), increased drinking, passage of copious amounts of urine which may contain blood, and death.

owen

12/3/2004 8:36:00 AM

Billerica,Massachusetts

Chuck: i found this in an article about composting --
During the first six to eight months of decomposition, leaves produce phenols that inhibit the growth of seedlings. Don't bag the leaves and hoard them until spring, since the process won't run its natural course. Spread leaves on the beds or corral them in temporary bins of chicken wire, leave them for the winter and then till them in when the soil begins to warm next April.

Weathered leaves have exhausted their phenol content and won't affect spring plantings"
"

12/3/2004 11:37:04 AM

Itzetown City

I´ve learned both of them (acid and toxic) in walnut and oak leaves are full exhausted if the leaves are full composted. But in due to the acid they need longer to be composted.

12/3/2004 12:10:29 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Chucky!!!

It could be the cooler weather. Two year old Oak leaves should be good to go if adequate composting occurred.

Take a pot full into the house. Start some seeds & see how they do.

12/3/2004 1:02:30 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Thanks all...These were thirty foot piles now down to about four foot...top is definitley composted....I'm sure two feet down there's plenty of anerobic material but that is way down...gonna try to germinate and grow some seeds indoors. Hey Owen...I resemble alot of those symptoms...LOL..thought it was just winter weight!!

12/3/2004 4:42:38 PM