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Fresno, CA

My seeds sprouted a week ago today and I put them in pots that day. So far there isn't even cracking of the soil. I read that it can take 4-8 days for seedlings to emerge. If I don't see anything in the next couple days, at what point should I admit defeat and start another batch of seeds?

3/21/2011 10:54:31 AM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

if you got the seed figure out why you didn't get your first one's to break dirt yet, adjust, start another batch

considerations.....
soil to wet
soil to hot or cold
seed to deep
chemical in soil?
broke sprout when planting
sprout dried out
other?

A sprout should be breaking dirt in less than a week, 3-4 days average
good luck

3/21/2011 2:16:12 PM

Navarre,OH

My black beauty zucchini's take damn near two weeks to break soil. Scrape some soil away tiny tiny bits at a time to take a peak at the seed to see if its rotting or cracking open yet. I have done it tons of times. Just be careful!

3/21/2011 9:46:08 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

ET, you said "seeds" more than one? If so, and none have "cracked soil" then something is prbly wrong in yer process!!! ?#1..."sprouted a week ago" ? How did you make em sprout?, guessing,(file, soak & paper towel method? How long after sprout, did you put them in to soil of some type? PS...remember that this will prbly help a bunch of new growers!!! ?#2...put them in pots that day?...what kind, and size of pots, and what was in the pots? How wet was the potting medium? What temp? So many variables...hope help, and success comes yer way!!! Peace, Wayne

3/22/2011 2:49:28 AM

Fresno, CA

Thanks for the responses. Peace, Wayne there are a total of 6 seeds. Three from the 14th and Three from two days later. #1 You're right I did use the file, soak and paper towel method. As soon as I saw they were sprouted I put them in soil within 10 minutes. #2 I used 5" Jiffy pots for the first 3 seeds. I planted them in a mixture of Jiffy seed starter mix, a little potting soil, a little native dirt from underneath my composting area, a couple specks of pumpkin pro, and a couple specks of bone meal. The potting medium was fairly dry and I sprayed the top with a household water sprayer, using bottled water (didnt want to hit with chlorine from tap). I put the pots on top of a seed starting mat (and thin towel) to keep them above ambient temp in house.

3/22/2011 10:33:36 AM

Fresno, CA

The temp at the bottom of the pots is probably 80-85 degrees, but I haven't measured it. I was trying to avoid overmoistening due to warnings online. Maybe the heating pad is drying out the soil too much. When I check them later they're bone dry. I also planted two seeds in 1 gallon pots two days later and those aren't on seedling heating pad. They stay moist all day.

3/22/2011 10:35:05 AM

Fresno, CA

I'm going to try that slow excavation on one tonight Billium.

3/22/2011 4:25:41 PM

Fresno, CA

Bought a useless moisture meter at a grow supply. Tested the moisture level (doesn't have units) which ranges from 0.0 to 9.9. It says a reading of 3-4 is optimal for squash. I tried it in the dries pot. Reading was 0.0. I tried it in my moistest pot. Reading was 0.0. I tried it outside in a planter with saturated potting soil (it rained over 1.5" just a day ago). Reading varied from 0.5 to 1.0. Okay I'm getting suspicious now. I put it in a glass of water for a while. Maximum reading was 2.5! Time for a new moisture meter.

3/22/2011 10:25:00 PM

Fresno, CA

Using a thermometer, the reading in the seed pot soil was 75 deg F.

3/22/2011 10:26:07 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

ET, I am thinkin that soil temp control during this period is very important!!! If you are not monitoring soil temps w/ a thermometer, then yer just guessin!! Hope that doesn't sound harsh!!! LOL Dryness due to peat pots wicking moisture out of starting mix, is one of the reasons that I don't use em!!! Lot's of ideas out there for easily removeable plastic pots! I get my starting mix to the desired moisture level (grab a hand full and squeeze real hard...1 drop max of water comes out) and keep between 85-90 degrees, and have great success. Hope this helps. Peace, Wayne

3/22/2011 10:28:27 PM

Fresno, CA

reading at the bottom inside of seedling pot was 80 deg F.

3/22/2011 10:54:11 PM

Fresno, CA

Thanks Peace, Wayne not too harsh. I'll get something to insulate the pots so the tempature picks up to 85.

3/22/2011 10:55:45 PM

Muddy Waters

Why root seeds first? I just start in pots,roots to fragile to handle.Just my opinion & too wet can really hurt you.

3/22/2011 11:12:46 PM

Muddy Waters

I love peat pots,rip them off to transplant,You need to monitor moisture,Not to wet, not to dry its not that difficult really.Dont plant in peat pots,Big Mistake.

3/23/2011 7:33:25 AM

Muddy Waters

I think your playing with the seeds to much!put them in pots in moist soil strater,Mine are in a covered incubator so moisture stays stable,place seeds point down,When soil cracks & plant starts to emerge remove from heat& place under grow lite or outside on porch if weather is over 55 & sunny,Keep 2 to 4 inchs from grow lite,as yo dont want tall spindly seedlings.The seedlings are better on porch if possible the wind makes them stonger.Watch your pets,Dolly (GoldenRetriever)ran around the yard with my lemon tree last spring,she left it behind the barn,just a stub,It grew back beautiful.Good luck!

3/23/2011 7:46:42 AM

Western PA

Endless trail, I had issues last spring. I started mine by the damp paper towel method then put them in my starter mix. I got dumb and added some mild espomo fertilizer with mycorhyzae in it. After several days of nothing happening, I dug one of the seeds out. The root only grew a little longer then when I put the sprouted seed in the mix.

The salts in the fertilizer dried the root up and killed several seeds.

I would dig one out carefully and see what is going on. Once these ag seeds sprout from the towel method, they should be up in 2 or 3 days. Some seeds will occasionally take longer though.

3/23/2011 9:31:32 AM

Fresno, CA

One seed busted out of the soil surface last night and the cot leaves are trying to get out. So hope isn't lost for this batch. I put a cardboard box over the pots to keep the temperature elevated until I can get a plastic dome tonight. The first seed I planted which had the most developed sprout is the one that is coming out of the soil now. It's the Risi 722 #1 (I planted 2). I am appreciating all of the information from these posts.

3/23/2011 12:03:38 PM

Colorado

Endless,I check seeds at 24 hrs for germination.I have them in a peat pot inside a cooler at 85 degrees.If I place them back in the pot and incubator they'll be pushing dirt within 48 hrs so 72 total.If I transfer them into a 2 gallon bucket with cooler temps it make take up to 4 days more for them to push through the soil.If youre longer than that something bad has likely happened.You might carefully remove the dirt around one of them to see whats going on

3/23/2011 1:39:25 PM

Muddy Waters

seedlings are real sensitive I would not fertilize ever or use any thing other then a mild potting mix.in till there established about 10 days.

3/23/2011 5:50:33 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

ET, testing soil at bottom of pot (next to heat source) is like kissin yer sister!!! LOL Test temps at seed level!!! The reason I don't like peat pots is two-fold...peat wicks moisture from the starting mix, and roots grow into them, so if ya remove the peat pots, yer rippin roots off!!! I use plastic containers, cut apart & taped back together. At planting time, remove tape, gently remove plastic halves, settle into planting spot, and good to grow!!! Congrats on the sprout, and hope that the responses, from awl... are helpin!!! Peace, Wayne

3/23/2011 10:56:58 PM

Fresno, CA

I did both - first temp (75 deg F) was from seed level. The second temp (80 deg F) was from bottom of pot. No sister kissing intended.

3/24/2011 1:45:05 AM

Fresno, CA

So Handyhomegrown you think couple specks of bone meal could be part of problem?

3/24/2011 1:45:53 AM

El Paso TX.

The 75 Degree seed level temp is probably the problem they like temps more in the mid 80's to low 90's at seed level cooler temps will take longer to get the growth going and they might rot before reaching the surface at 85+ I have had them go from soaked seed placed in peat pot to breaking ground in 24 to 72 hours.

3/24/2011 9:59:02 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

ET,LOL crank up the heat!!! 82-85 or so, is what works at seed level , I think??? Peace, Wayne

3/24/2011 6:13:33 PM

Fresno, CA

so it's either an ice chest or a different type of heating pad that I need. Because right now I've got the seedling mat on 24/7 and even with the cover I added it's not enough heat. Maybe I should try a space blanket!

3/24/2011 7:59:50 PM

Western NY

Endless, am using 40 watt clear bulb in bottom of 40 quart ice chest with 4 inch peat pots on a heavy screen under closed cover.
82-88 degs after a little experimenting with cover. Am 10 for 10 in last 2 weeks. Tried 25 watts and didn't work. Am using digital meat thermometer to read soil.

3/25/2011 6:45:39 PM

Western NY

screen is about 8" above light

3/25/2011 6:46:52 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

Trail, those mats average about 20-25 degrees above room temp and that is at the bottom of the pot. I take sheets of foil and put them like a teepee over my pots which are in an open cooler on the heat mat. Everyone has their own ways, but I have found this to be the best for me. I experimented with over 100 seeds this winter and personally I don't like the paper towell method.

We should have been talking about this in December!

3/26/2011 10:56:45 AM

Fresno, CA

You're right Luke, and I should have been practicing all winter like you did.

3/26/2011 11:16:15 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

I use a 40 gallon H/Duty (approx 1.5" thick) styrofoam cooler on top of an oil filled radiator type heater. It has dual heat settings...900W & 600W (two different switches) and a variable control (rheostat?)!!! I also have a soil temp thermometer!!! Within 24 hrs or so...using different switches and the variable control, and how much I vent the lid, I can get my seed starting mix at seed level w/in a degree or two of what I want!!! Total cost...(garage sale heater, cooler I already owned) about $20!!! So many variables that can make it work!!! C'mon...let's hear about the McGiver that is in awl of us!!! Stories please??? LOL Peace, Wayne

3/27/2011 12:06:35 AM

El Paso TX.

I'm using a Sterlite plastic container that I had extra found a shelf for an old Dryer that was designed for drying shoes etc. inside the dryer without them rolling in the drum that fit inside nicely - Folded up an old electric blanket in the bottom with several heat settings (found that in my 74 degree room the medium setting on this blanket keeps the container around 84 - 88 degrees)-- can fit about 8 large peat pots on the shelf and 8 more under it on top of a cookie sheet placed over the blanket. Works well and the cost was $0.

3/27/2011 10:26:31 AM

El Paso TX.

Here's a pic of the setup -- http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc189/JDFanning_bucket/PICT0231.jpg

3/27/2011 10:27:23 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

Any luck yet? I just read your diary entry about your Marsh seed... that sucks. Hopefully a rough start will only mean a great ending.

3/27/2011 9:15:15 PM

Fresno, CA

Thanks Luke. I planted the one seed that developed normally. The 722 Risi #1. I put it in the ground today. The 722 Risi #2 got somewhat mutilated as the cot leaves grew out of the seed cover. So far none of the other seeds have sprouted - not a good sign. I am going to start another batch probably tomorrow both as a backup in case the 722 Risi doesn't work out and because I need to get a pollinator plant going ASAP. So I will try some of the suggestions I've been getting in this thread to improve my chances this go around. I'll definitely be chucking the peat pots. I'm going to find some kind of cooler or bin to sink the whole setup up into so I can reach the proper temp. Also I'm going to water differently. When I planted the Risi I noticed the water wasn't penetrating to the bottom of the pot. The soil at the bottom of pot was bone dry while the top was still very moist.

3/27/2011 11:08:54 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

Great News ET. You're in the same climate, that I'm in here in the central valley. We dont need to start seeds til around May 8 or 10. Planting in the ground about 6 to 7 days later. No need to start any sooner than that. I woud recommend buying some dvd's on growing giant pumpkins. Joel Hollands "how to grow giant pumpkins" and "how to do stuff in the pumpkin patch" are both excellent. The dvd from the SNGPG is also a good one. Both will walk you though seed starting and alot more. Good luck.
ron root

3/28/2011 12:09:47 AM

Muddy Waters

If I was using elecric blankets & such for heat I think I would cover pots to slow evaporation,& contain heat better.
Dont Keep them to Wet,Ive done that a few times

3/28/2011 7:30:21 AM

Muddy Waters

Yes endless trail,Im no expert,But I wouldnt give a high energy drink To a child,They would probably jump on a bike & crash into a tree!LOL

3/28/2011 7:38:55 AM

Garden State Pumpkins

watch that "outside dirt" from under the compost pile....not a good starting medium...if its got bugs you got bugs on a new seedling. GrowEmBIg. Chuck

3/28/2011 9:59:38 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

I start all of my AG's, CC's, and Lopes in a sterilized starting mix!!! Have read several times that the seeds in/and of themselves have enough energy to push em up, if conditions are right!!! Also, the only moisture I add, after seed goes into starting mix, is a very light misting of room temp water...and only if the starting mix is lookin very,very dry!!! Peace, Wayne

3/28/2011 6:34:42 PM

Fresno, CA

Ron, that is great to hear you don't start until May. I thought one of the ways I could compensate for the hot summers here was to start early and place a larger portion of the growing season during a time when temperatures are close to the optimal 85 or so. I've seen how growers in hot places like Arizona and Louisiana start early. But if you start in May I guess I don't need to start so early given the success you've had in Citrus Heights. Do you have any tips on beating the valley heat? I have misters and 22% shade cloth on my patch.

3/28/2011 7:25:48 PM

Fresno, CA

Ron, the seed starting mix I got is Jiffy brand mix and it's bone dry. I'll forget adding dirt from outside next time Chuck.

3/28/2011 7:27:19 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

ET, No need to shade the whole patch, just the pumpkin. You will get bigger pumpkins this way. Cooling the younger leaves via misting is a must. Very important to do this right. Post your email and I will contact you...Ron

3/29/2011 1:15:59 AM

Muddy Waters

PW you must soak your seeds yours overnight.all the bagged stuff I buy is way to dry I do more than Mist it!

3/29/2011 7:47:16 AM

Fresno, CA

Ron, thanks. You are blowing my mind. I didn't realize I didn't need to shade the plant to get good results here. My email is j dot endless trail at gmail dot com.

3/29/2011 4:05:35 PM

Fresno, CA

Handyhomegrown, I have been soaking seeds overnight (in 10:1 water to hydrogen peroxide) . But I only misted the surface of the bagged seed starter mix when I put the seed in. That was probably part of my problem. I should have got the moisture more evenly distributed.

3/29/2011 4:07:25 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

HHG,I file and soak for a very limited time...2/4 hrs...depending on what type o seeds!!! Gourds, I prbly file more, and soak more!! I take seed starting mix, in a 5 gallon bucket, and add Mycho, and just a lil water & mix well, add a lil more H2O if needed...If you can squeeze more than 1 drop of water out of a fist full, it's too wet!!! Put into 1 gallons pots, keep temps correct!!! Works well for me! The only reason I mist em, is cause to regulate temps properly, the top of my germination chamber is cracked open a bit for air flow!! Which allows some evaporation!! Peace, Wayne

3/31/2011 12:16:05 AM

East Jordan, MI

Potting soil needs to MOIST but not wet.

Here's what I was told to do and I have had 100% germination for 2 years of pre-season and one real deal (about 30 seeds).

Make serveral test runs till you get it figured out.

Use PLAIN potting soil.

Wet the potting soil until you can squeeze as hard as you can and get ONE drop of water -- TWO drops is too much. Make a germination box (an ice chest works well) to keep the temp as close to 88-89 degrees as possible -- in the soil -- not the air (use a thermometer). This will also keep the humidity up. Warm the soil up and keep at a constant temp for at least 2 days prior to starting seeds.

File edges of seeds.

Soak seeds in 3% peroxide for 30 mins.

Soak in 1 tsp Neptune's Harvest liquid seaweed in a cup of warm (88 degree) water for 6 hours.

Dust seed with fungicide (I use captan)

Plant directly in soil.

Monitor temp.

In 36-60 hours you should see the seed pushing up dirt.

As soon as the seed leaves are out of the soil, CAREFULLY remove the seed coat if it needs it and put within 2 inches of a flouresant light. I use a 4 ft shop light with one plant/aquarium bulb and one full spectrum (daylight) bulb.

Keep the light on the seedlings for 24 hours the first day and then cycles of 18 hours on and 6 complete darkness for 3-5 days.

Plant in hoop house.

Good luck.

3/31/2011 7:43:53 AM

Muddy Waters

Thanks never been that detailed,my results have been far from 100%.thanks I have some great seeds to germ,shootin for 100%,like Cecil.

3/31/2011 9:17:52 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

Is there a reason I shouldn't use seed starting mix with miracle grow? It has added phos for root growth.

3/31/2011 10:32:59 AM

El Paso TX.

@Luke -- the MG ferts are a bit too strong for seedlings and can wind up burning the leaves and sometimes killing the seedling --- best to use plain starting soil (perhaps a small amount of Myco to improve rooting) and then add the fertilizer later when the plants have grown a bit and can handle the fertilizer better.

3/31/2011 2:00:15 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

Thanks JD

3/31/2011 8:42:32 PM

Muddy Waters

I had problems 10 years ago with melons wilting I thought it was due to Mirclegro with the gold balls in it to hot for melon seedlings,Maybe it was something else I quit using it for melons.

3/31/2011 10:02:58 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

I test my abilities by practicing on some junk seeds. They usually do well. I posted what I do in regards to seed starting in an above post. I think that as long as you have a heating chamber and heating mat that stays at a constant temp of 83 to 87,degrees youll do well. I understand the stress of trying to get seeds germinated.

4/13/2011 8:48:38 PM

Sparks, NV

dont worie at all i havent even stared my seeds yet becuse i cant i can't plant outside until end/middel of may ya i know bad but the cold will frezze it

4/23/2011 12:18:57 AM

Fresno, CA

Thanks everyone for dropping knowledge on me in March and April. I restarted today. I got the soil temp in the plastic pots at 88F. I'm using jiffy seed starting mix. I moistened all the soil mix evenly in a bag to the right amount (no more than one drop on squeezing) and preheated to 88 before putting the seed in. I just presoaked the seeds for a few hours and I didn't the paper towel method at all this time. I'm hoping this time around will be a lot better. BTW the amazing seeds I got to start are the 1544 Revier and 1293.5 Hopkins.

5/14/2011 12:05:58 AM

Fresno, CA

Going well so far. Started seeds on Friday and they emerged from soil mix on Monday.

5/20/2011 12:58:06 AM